Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

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Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Professor Smooth » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:15 pm

Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers when it comes to determining who may drive in the carpool lane, a judge has ruled.

Candace Dickinson was fined $367 for improper use of a carpool lane.

But Dickinson, pregnant when she received the ticket, contended her unborn child qualified to use the lane. (Watch -- notecards in hand -- how she tried to explain that to the judge -- 3:36)

Motorists who use the lanes normally must carry at least one passenger during weekday rush hours.

Municipal Judge Dennis Freeman rejected Dickinson's argument Tuesday, applying a "common sense" definition in which an individual is someone who occupies a "separate and distinct" space in a vehicle.

"The law is meant to fill empty space in a vehicle," the judge said.

Sgt. Dave Norton stopped Dickinson's car November 8. When asked how many people were in the car, Dickinson said two, pointing to "her obvious pregnancy," the officer said.

Norton said Dickinson's theory "would require officers to carry guns, radios and pregnancy testers, and I don't think we want to go there."

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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Post by Brendocon » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:17 pm

Points for creativity....
Grrr. Argh.

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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by The Last Autobot » Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:21 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.
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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Professor Smooth » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:59 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.
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Post by Metal Vendetta » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:48 pm

They're parasites

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Post by Optimus Prime Rib » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:59 pm

You can both kiss the tip on that one. My wife is carrying our third, and she is most definitely my child. She is a human being. She has a name.

Kaelynn Victoria Dawn Elmer :)
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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by The Last Autobot » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:22 pm

Professor Smooth wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.


And when do they start to be?

When they talk? When they are 18?
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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Optimus Prime Rib » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:52 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.


And when do they start to be?

When they talk? When they are 18?
according to Yaya its when they learn how to do the dishes.
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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Best First » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:59 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.


And when do they start to be?

When they talk? When they are 18?


when they are in my address book.
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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Guest » Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:18 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.


And when do they start to be?

When they talk? When they are 18?


When they have developed to a point of having a semblance of human physical characteristics and stand some non-zero chance of surviving being forcibly removed from their mothers' wombs prematurely.

Continuing advancements in medical technology allow for this point to move further and futher toward conception.

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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Optimus Prime Rib » Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:01 am

Rebis wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.


And when do they start to be?

When they talk? When they are 18?


When they have developed to a point of having a semblance of human physical characteristics and stand some non-zero chance of surviving being forcibly removed from their mothers' wombs prematurely.

Continuing advancements in medical technology allow for this point to move further and futher toward conception.

its called War.
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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by The Last Autobot » Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:43 am

Rebis wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.


And when do they start to be?

When they talk? When they are 18?


When they have developed to a point of having a semblance of human physical characteristics and stand some non-zero chance of surviving being forcibly removed from their mothers' wombs prematurely.

Continuing advancements in medical technology allow for this point to move further and futher toward conception.



So, imagine I encounter a woman the day before she gives birth and I beat the crap out of her and the consequence is an abortion.

I didnt kill a human being I just only injured one very badly.

Is that so?

mmmmm
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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Kup_1 » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:33 am

Rebis wrote:
When they have developed to a point of having a semblance of human physical characteristics and stand some non-zero chance of surviving being forcibly removed from their mothers' wombs prematurely.

Continuing advancements in medical technology allow for this point to move further and futher toward conception.


This is why I never liked that defination.

My personal opinion...life begins at conception, however....you become human when the fetus starts to devop as either a male or a female...

Sorta.

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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Professor Smooth » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:14 am

The Last Autobot wrote:
Rebis wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.


And when do they start to be?

When they talk? When they are 18?


When they have developed to a point of having a semblance of human physical characteristics and stand some non-zero chance of surviving being forcibly removed from their mothers' wombs prematurely.

Continuing advancements in medical technology allow for this point to move further and futher toward conception.



So, imagine I encounter a woman the day before she gives birth and I beat the crap out of her and the consequence is an abortion.

I didnt kill a human being I just only injured one very badly.

Is that so?

mmmmm


Without question, yes.
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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by Guest » Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:14 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
Rebis wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Oh nation...


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Fetuses do not count as passengers


Well they dont count as human beings in some nations hence the abortions. So this doesnt surprise me.


That's because they aren't.


And when do they start to be?

When they talk? When they are 18?


When they have developed to a point of having a semblance of human physical characteristics and stand some non-zero chance of surviving being forcibly removed from their mothers' wombs prematurely.

Continuing advancements in medical technology allow for this point to move further and futher toward conception.



So, imagine I encounter a woman the day before she gives birth and I beat the crap out of her and the consequence is an abortion.

I didnt kill a human being I just only injured one very badly.

Is that so?

mmmmm

If you beat the crap out of a woman whose come full term and the consequence is an abortion, then there's something very peculiar about that woman's physiology.

For most women in that situation, there would be an emergency Caesarian performed and if the baby doesn't survive, that's still-born.

Abortion, Miscarriage and Still-birth. Three different events. Best not to confuse them.

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Re: Is a fetus a seperate person? Court says: No...

Post by The Last Autobot » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:41 pm

Rebis wrote:If you beat the crap out of a woman whose come full term and the consequence is an abortion, then there's something very peculiar about that woman's physiology.

For most women in that situation, there would be an emergency Caesarian performed and if the baby doesn't survive, that's still-born.

Abortion, Miscarriage and Still-birth. Three different events. Best not to confuse them.


Different events, yes

But the same individuals involved.

But talking in a voluntary abortion setting . Saying a fetus is not a human being (or similar technical and/or scientifical postures) is only a way to handle and cope guilt in. Its easier to say that, that accepting that you killed your son/daughter. A way of rationalize it
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Post by Best First » Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:25 pm

if i jack off in a petri dish with an unferilised egg in it then throw it in the bin is it murder?

or is it bunch of cells thrown in the bin?

cutting off a possibility is not the same as killing an individual and the only arguements that run contrary to this are solely underpinned by emotion or religion, niether of which are good basis for legislation.
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Post by The Last Autobot » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:41 pm

Best First wrote:if i jack off in a petri dish with an unferilised egg in it then throw it in the bin is it murder?

or is it bunch of cells thrown in the bin?

cutting off a possibility is not the same as killing an individual and the only arguements that run contrary to this are solely underpinned by emotion or religion, niether of which are good basis for legislation.


Well you are a bunch of cells.

When did you start being a human being?

At birth?

You are born and Voila! you are a human being? :eyebrow:
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Post by Best First » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:14 pm

The Last Autobot wrote:
Best First wrote:if i jack off in a petri dish with an unferilised egg in it then throw it in the bin is it murder?

or is it bunch of cells thrown in the bin?

cutting off a possibility is not the same as killing an individual and the only arguements that run contrary to this are solely underpinned by emotion or religion, niether of which are good basis for legislation.


Well you are a bunch of cells.

When did you start being a human being?

At birth?

You are born and Voila! you are a human being? :eyebrow:


nice way to avoid the question.

Is what is thrown in the bin in my (wierd) example an entity capable of choice or conciousness? If so how?

[/code]
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Post by The Last Autobot » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:30 pm

Best First wrote:
The Last Autobot wrote:
Best First wrote:if i jack off in a petri dish with an unferilised egg in it then throw it in the bin is it murder?

or is it bunch of cells thrown in the bin?

cutting off a possibility is not the same as killing an individual and the only arguements that run contrary to this are solely underpinned by emotion or religion, niether of which are good basis for legislation.


Well you are a bunch of cells.

When did you start being a human being?

At birth?

You are born and Voila! you are a human being? :eyebrow:


nice way to avoid the question.

Is what is thrown in the bin in my (wierd) example an entity capable of choice or conciousness? If so how?

[/code]


Not at that moment. In your "experiment" the environment wouldnt permit it to evolve. But If it would, then at which moment it would be killing somebody? 1 months, 2 months? Well he/she wouldnt "born"

So you say that you are a human being when you are capable of choice and/or conciousness.

Is that so?
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Post by Professor Smooth » Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:24 pm

Look, the bottom line is this. You would have one hell of a hard time convincing me that most people who are walking around today deserve to keep living. Trying to convince me that someone who hasn't been born yet deserves to be would be damn near impossible.

Life begins and birth and ends at death. It does not begin at conception and end when every cell of the body has decomposed.
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Post by Bouncelot » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:04 am

Professor Smooth wrote:Look, the bottom line is this. You would have one hell of a hard time convincing me that most people who are walking around today deserve to keep living. Trying to convince me that someone who hasn't been born yet deserves to be would be damn near impossible.

Life begins and birth and ends at death. It does not begin at conception and end when every cell of the body has decomposed.


What's so special about the point of being born that suddenly makes a baby become a human being, then?

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Post by Impactor returns 2.0 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:04 am

Human life begins with consciousness.
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Post by Professor Smooth » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:31 am

Bouncelot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Look, the bottom line is this. You would have one hell of a hard time convincing me that most people who are walking around today deserve to keep living. Trying to convince me that someone who hasn't been born yet deserves to be would be damn near impossible.

Life begins and birth and ends at death. It does not begin at conception and end when every cell of the body has decomposed.


What's so special about the point of being born that suddenly makes a baby become a human being, then?


Now you're starting to get it...
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Post by The Last Autobot » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:42 am

Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Human life begins with consciousness.


You dont gain consciousness the moment you are born. It takes time.
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Post by Professor Smooth » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:05 am

The Last Autobot wrote:
Impactor returns 2.0 wrote:Human life begins with consciousness.


You dont gain consciousness the moment you are born. It takes time.


Exactly!
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Post by Optimus Prime Rib » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:05 am

Professor Smooth wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Look, the bottom line is this. You would have one hell of a hard time convincing me that most people who are walking around today deserve to keep living. Trying to convince me that someone who hasn't been born yet deserves to be would be damn near impossible.

Life begins and birth and ends at death. It does not begin at conception and end when every cell of the body has decomposed.


What's so special about the point of being born that suddenly makes a baby become a human being, then?


Now you're starting to get it...
Get what? that this stopped being an intelligent argument and has devolved into another of your 'I hate the world' rants?
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Post by Professor Smooth » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:15 am

Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Look, the bottom line is this. You would have one hell of a hard time convincing me that most people who are walking around today deserve to keep living. Trying to convince me that someone who hasn't been born yet deserves to be would be damn near impossible.

Life begins and birth and ends at death. It does not begin at conception and end when every cell of the body has decomposed.


What's so special about the point of being born that suddenly makes a baby become a human being, then?


Now you're starting to get it...
Get what? that this stopped being an intelligent argument and has devolved into another of your 'I hate the world' rants?


I do not hate the world. I hate the people who make it a less enjoyable place for me to live in.
snarl wrote:Just... really... what the **** have [IDW] been taking for the last 2 years?
Brendocon wrote:Yaya's money.

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Post by The Last Autobot » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:30 am

Professor Smooth wrote:
Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Look, the bottom line is this. You would have one hell of a hard time convincing me that most people who are walking around today deserve to keep living. Trying to convince me that someone who hasn't been born yet deserves to be would be damn near impossible.

Life begins and birth and ends at death. It does not begin at conception and end when every cell of the body has decomposed.


What's so special about the point of being born that suddenly makes a baby become a human being, then?


Now you're starting to get it...
Get what? that this stopped being an intelligent argument and has devolved into another of your 'I hate the world' rants?


I do not hate the world. I hate the people who make it a less enjoyable place for me to live in.


In other words, everybody else? :eyebrow:
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Post by Professor Smooth » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:45 am

The Last Autobot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
Optimus Prime Rib wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:
Bouncelot wrote:
Professor Smooth wrote:Look, the bottom line is this. You would have one hell of a hard time convincing me that most people who are walking around today deserve to keep living. Trying to convince me that someone who hasn't been born yet deserves to be would be damn near impossible.

Life begins and birth and ends at death. It does not begin at conception and end when every cell of the body has decomposed.


What's so special about the point of being born that suddenly makes a baby become a human being, then?


Now you're starting to get it...
Get what? that this stopped being an intelligent argument and has devolved into another of your 'I hate the world' rants?


I do not hate the world. I hate the people who make it a less enjoyable place for me to live in.


In other words, everybody else? :eyebrow:


How little you guys must think of me. No, not everyone else. Just most everyone else.
snarl wrote:Just... really... what the **** have [IDW] been taking for the last 2 years?
Brendocon wrote:Yaya's money.

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